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pistons 2-7 are not working

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26 Jun 2021 23:04 #16497
von rsadut
pistons 2-7 are not working wurde erstellt von rsadut
Hi D-Jet community.

Hope you are doing well during the pandemic. Greetings from Istanbul

During the last three month covid lock-down in Turkey my car’ s battery ran out.I recharged the battery and installed it back on the car.After starting the engine I have waited until the engine warmed up and took it out for a short ride.Everything went smooth.Yesterday night I wanted to go out again. When I started the engine it had an uneven idle.

After couple of minutes idling the engine did not respond to the gas pedal. It was struggling to run.

I tried to take it out of the garage but the car could not climb even the slightest hill.The engine just did not rev up.So I parked it back.Today the same symptoms continued but I was able to reach the mechanic' s garage which is a couple of kms away.First he checked the spark plugs and the electricity for the spark plugs. They were all ok.Then the mechanic removed the electrical connection of each injector to feel the effect.He found out that removing the injector connections for pistons 2-7 did not make any changes.He has also listened to the pistons by using a special stethoscope.The result confirmed the previous finding.  He first suspected the ignition distributor with 4 trigger contacts.We checked each contact with the ohm meter by manually creating the effect of the ignition distributor one by one. 
Once he was sure all four contacts of the anvil were responding the part was placed back to the housing and he checked the signals by turning the distributor manually again. ( the contact gaps were checked using Norbert' s special tool. Thanks again Norbert)After the installation of the distributor fine tuning was performed and engine was running ok.I wanted to check the engine on the road so I took it out for a ride on the highway.I felt a strain in the engine so I pushed the gas pedal further but rpm would not go over 2500 and stall.
The car started to shake as I increased the load.
So I eased down on the gas pedal to keep a steady pace at 70-80 km/h. and returned back to the mechanic s garageIn general the idle is uneven probably due to the missing pistons.Around 1500-1800 rpm the engine sound becomes normal and the shaking disappears. The same is valid for 2200-2400 rpm.What should be checked to diagnose the problem ?

Best Regards,
Juan

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26 Jun 2021 23:20 #16498
von Dr-DJet Europe Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
Dr-DJet antwortete auf pistons 2-7 are not working
Merhaba Juan,

this is a problem of injector group 4. It is either trigger contact 14, wires to pin 14 on ECU, a problem on ECU or with wiring from pin 6 ECU to injectors on cal 2 and 7 including grounding wires.

It would be best to measure pin 14 versus 13 on ECU with running engine via oscilloscope. A multimeter is possible but not exact. Same is valid for pin 5 versus pin 6. Then you know whether it is trigger contacts / wiring or ECU / wiring.

Alman arkadasim carsambada Istabvula gidiyor.

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
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02 Jul 2021 09:59 #16518
von rsadut
rsadut antwortete auf pistons 2-7 are not working
Hi Eeveryone,

Greetings from Istanbul to the whole community.
The are two trigger contacts (when you look at the U-shaped unit from the front)  on the top and two are below.
Where is number one and then for number two do we go clockwise or anti-clockwise.
Or Is the sequence different.
Your advice will be greatly appreciated

best regards
juan

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02 Jul 2021 10:28 #16519
von Dr-DJet Europe Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
Dr-DJet antwortete auf pistons 2-7 are not working
Hi Juan,

14 is imprinted on connector. Then you just follow that contact.

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
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02 Jul 2021 15:49 #16520
von rsadut
rsadut antwortete auf pistons 2-7 are not working
Hi Again,

Thanks for the assistance.
One more question which might sound silly but I just want to make sure of it.
The injector valve receptacles have a trapezoid form.
Yesterday I tried to place it on a spare injector I had at home.
I could mount it  either way. Long edge on top or at the bottom.
As I have checked my cabling again by using the guide you have in the website (thanks again for the detailed information)  to make sure the cabling is ok I have found out that the right side (facing the receptacle from the front) is the connection let me call it '+' and the left side is the ground '-' brown where all cables merge into two bundles attached to the chassis.
What would be the effect of misplacing the double ended receptacles on the system parts.
As I let my mechanic do the work  I do not know how he does it.
Now I have marked the top long edge with red nail polish to distinguish and to make sure it is connected in the right manner.
br
juan  

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02 Jul 2021 18:00 #16521
von Dr-DJet Europe Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
Dr-DJet antwortete auf pistons 2-7 are not working
Hi Juan,

you can insert connector on injectors and MAP sensor either way. It does not matter.

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
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03 Jul 2021 16:38 #16522
von rsadut
rsadut antwortete auf pistons 2-7 are not working
Hi Jetronic community,

I have checked the cabling from ECU to the injectors system components and to the main relay box. Everything is corresponding to the cabling details mentioned in the pinout diagram. I have two ECU boxes.
The ignition distributor and the amboss openings were check again as per instruction of Volker and Norbert and fine tuned.
Today we tried to run the engine but after a very unstable idle and some misifiring the engine stops. We have tried both ECU boxes and the result is the same.
Previously the injector valve cables were checked one by one with a 1,5 V lamp (due to lack of ossiloscope). only injector valve cables for pistons 2 and 7 did not glow ( very low illuminaton in the rest of the cables).
The engine mechanic claims that we have to obtain electricity on these two terminals to make the engine run.
I have also tried to get a signal with the use of a multimeter from the ignition distributor connections which was successful. after two or three turns the signal disappears for each connection. So I guess the amboss contacts are working.
Could the switchgear of transistorized ignition be part of the problem?
What do you recommend?

Best Regards and have a good week-end
Juan

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05 Jul 2021 10:10 #16525
von Dr-DJet Europe Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
Dr-DJet antwortete auf pistons 2-7 are not working
Hi Juan,

ist is definitely not the transistorized ignition module. It is very unlikely that you have 2 broken ECUs. So that leaves us with trigger contacts, wiring from TC to ECU, wiring from ECU to injectors, injectors and wiring from injector to engine ground.

Can you find an oscilloscope? Then it would be best to monitor 14 and 6 both on ECU and on TC / injector to verify.

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
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05 Jul 2021 14:28 #16528
von rsadut
rsadut antwortete auf pistons 2-7 are not working
Hi Volker,

thanks again for your support. I have a 25 Mhz oscilloscope with only two ports. Will this be ok for measurements?

BR,
Juan

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05 Jul 2021 14:56 #16529
von Dr-DJet Europe Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
Dr-DJet antwortete auf pistons 2-7 are not working
Hi Juan,

yes, connect 14 / 14 in comparison and 5/6 as well .

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
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05 Jul 2021 14:57 #16530
von Dr-DJet Europe Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
Dr-DJet antwortete auf pistons 2-7 are not working
BTW: 6000/min = 100 /s, so we have a frequency range of up to 100 Hz. No need for MHz.

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
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05 Jul 2021 14:59 #16531
von rsadut
rsadut antwortete auf pistons 2-7 are not working
you mean 14/13 right?

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05 Jul 2021 15:03 #16532
von Dr-DJet Europe Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
Dr-DJet antwortete auf pistons 2-7 are not working
Yes

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
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