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1975 350SLC rebirth

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15 Jul 2021 14:46 #16558
von kitisuru75 Other countries Mercedes-Benz C107 350 SLC
1975 350SLC rebirth wurde erstellt von kitisuru75
Dear Volker,

Thank you!
Well I have reached the stage where I would be grateful for some advice / suggestions!
A bit of background first. The car is generally in great condition, with 35000 kms on the clock, believed genuine. The camshafts are like new and the timing chain only shows very minimal stretch. However it has been parked for about 20 years and I have no idea if it ran when park.
Before attempting to start it, I set up a fuel feed from a jerrycan (I intend to fit a new fuel tank). Fitted a new fuel pump (3 bar operating pressure) and filter. Flushed the fuel lines on the car. Changed engine oil and filter. Adjusted valve clearances. Checked distributor on the bench, cleaned points and cleaned injection trigger contacts. One out of 4 was not working but I got that going. Checked and cleaned TS on bench. Checked MAP holds vacuum 0.5 bar.Fitted new plugs, Checked fuel pressure at cold start connection 2.2 bar on my guage. Checked for spark very good. Then attempted to start . Pump runs a few seconds when turning on, and also runs when starter motor is activated. Engine does not start, but will run when carb cleaner is sprayed in the intake. At that stage I tried to feel for vibration / noise on injection valves nothing. I then checked if there is any voltage at the injection valve socket, on a 1 volt scale, absolutely nothing, I did this on cylinders 1, 2 and 3
Then I followed all the checks in section 13:
12 volt present on pins 16 and 24, start signal on pin 18 also good. Temp sensors, TS, MAP all read correct values.
Fuel pump control between pins 19 and 16 shows 52 ohm, which is more than a few... But the pump seems to do what it should do.
Now of course I am starting to think that the ECU is faulty!!! As it does not fire the injectors!
Have I missed anything?
Many thanks,

Jean Pierre

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15 Jul 2021 15:39 #16559
von Dr-DJet Europe Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
Dr-DJet antwortete auf 1975 350SLC rebirth
Hi Jean-Pierre,

I opened a new thread as you had put it in Introduction.

Now when it comes to non-firing injectors. That can have many reasons:
  1. Injector needle can stick inside. Can mostly be repaired by cleaning.
  2. ECU can be broken
  3. Wiring and / or grounding can be faulty
  4. Steering wheel on wrong side

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Injectors must fire during start but of course engine vibrates and you can hardly feel their tickering while cranking engine. But try the following: Ignition ON - not too long as this might burn ignition module and / or power resistors - and push down gas pedal. You should hear injectors tickering. And disconnect ECU connector and measure pins 3, 4, 5, 6 against ground. You should see 1,2 ohm plus a bit for wires.

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
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21 Jul 2021 09:24 #16581
von kitisuru75 Other countries Mercedes-Benz C107 350 SLC
kitisuru75 antwortete auf 1975 350SLC rebirth
Dear Volker,

Many thanks for your reply, I have only just found it as it is a different thread now...
The ECU has already been sent to England for checking / repair.
I will of course keep you posted but it will take a few weeks before I get it back!
I will check those pins tomorrow.
Surely one should see some voltage at the injector plugs on a 1 volt scale while cranking?
I tested cylinders 1 2 and 3 which are in 3 different groups...
The only sign of life is from the cold start injector, plus of course the engine runs when starter motor is activated and carb cleaner is sprayed in the intake.
When we got the car the whole fuel pump / filter assembly at the rear was missing altogether, which leads me to think the car had a problem when it was parked... Or it could have been stolen while in storage!

Best regards,

Jean Pierre

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21 Jul 2021 09:55 #16582
von Dr-DJet Europe Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
Dr-DJet antwortete auf 1975 350SLC rebirth
Hi Jean-Pierre,

interesting I know of no one in the UK who would have all reference values to test each function block before and after repair.

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
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20 Aug 2021 14:43 #16760
von kitisuru75 Other countries Mercedes-Benz C107 350 SLC
kitisuru75 antwortete auf 1975 350SLC rebirth
Dear Volker,

The ECU went to the UK, was tested and found to be working perfectly...It's now back with me.
So I decided to test everything again from the ECU plug

PIN
1  351 ohm @ 17 degrees  air temp sensor
3  1.4 ohm to ground  output injectors group1
4  1.4 ohm  output injectors group 2
5  1.4 ohm  output injectors group 3
6  1.5 ohm  output injectors group 4
7  to 15 88.9 ohm to ground open  MAP primary coil
8  to 10 334 ohm  to ground open  MAP secondary coil
9  to 12  open then on and off while pressing throttle slowly  TS
13  on / off while rotating engine trigger contact 2
14  on / off while rotating engine  trigger contact 4
16  12.35 volt ignition on
18  12.35 volt start position
19  to 16  58 ohm  output to fuel pump relay
20   open then on and off while pressing throttle slowly  TS
21  on / off while rotating engine  trigger contact 1
22  on / off while rotating engine  trigger contact 3
23  2.95 kilo ohm @17 degrees  water temp
24  12.35 volt ignition on

So everything looks normal apart from 19 against 16 you say should be only a few ohm, I get 58. Is that bad? However the pump seems to behave normally, it runs for 2 seconds or so when ignition is switched on, it also ran when the starter motor was cranked.

I say ran because the starter motor has decided to stop working, I need to look at it on Monday. Therefore I could not try to start the car.

Next stop I guess, check the injectors?

There are 5 relays above the fuse box, I am not sure which one is the fuel relay, what do I need to check there?

Jean Pierre

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20 Aug 2021 15:32 #16761
von Dr-DJet Europe Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
Dr-DJet antwortete auf 1975 350SLC rebirth
Hi Jean-Pierre,

do you have a test protocol from the UK how and what they tested? I am curious whether they know what they are doing and whether they test each function block.

Have you ever tested fuel pressure and does fuel pump run for 2 seconds after starting? Fuel pump relay resistance is okay.

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
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20 Aug 2021 16:54 #16763
von kitisuru75 Other countries Mercedes-Benz C107 350 SLC
kitisuru75 antwortete auf 1975 350SLC rebirth
Dear Volker,

No I do not know their test protocol.

I sent the ECU to SL Shop

I tested the fuel pressure at the cold start unit, it was 2.05 bar

The car has not actually started... It kind of ran when spraying carburettor cleaner in the intake.

I think I need to check the injectors...

Jean Pierre

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20 Aug 2021 18:25 #16766
von Dr-DJet Europe Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
Dr-DJet antwortete auf 1975 350SLC rebirth
Hi,

that does not seem to make too much sense to me if someone tests an ECU without telling what they tested. Anyhow you seem to have another problem you should find. You can try with 3V whether your injectors tick and spray when you apply them short time with fuel pressure present.

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
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23 Aug 2021 15:32 #16801
von kitisuru75 Other countries Mercedes-Benz C107 350 SLC
kitisuru75 antwortete auf 1975 350SLC rebirth
Dear Volker,

The engine runs now.... on 3 cylinders! 5 injectors are stuck, all 8 have continuity when tested with 3 volts, but only 3 click. Those 3 spray reasonably well.
I will try and get them cleaned tomorrow, let's hope!
I have a spare W116 450 engine but I can't use its blue injectors, mine are yellow...

Jean-Pierre

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30 Aug 2021 15:16 #16841
von kitisuru75 Other countries Mercedes-Benz C107 350 SLC
kitisuru75 antwortete auf 1975 350SLC rebirth
Dear Volker,

Good news, the engine is now running on 8 cyinders, the injectors responded well to cleaning... I have not driven it et, but soon I will. I am sending it to have a stainless steel complete exhaust made, the original one is in ruins...
Thanks very much for all the information and support, I could not have done it without it!
By the way do you know about FJ119 injectors fron Standard? It appears they would be a suitable replacement... At about $70 each brand new.

Jean-Pierre

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30 Aug 2021 16:26 #16842
von Dr-DJet Europe Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
Dr-DJet antwortete auf 1975 350SLC rebirth
Hi Jean-Pierre,

forget them.

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
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21 Sep 2021 15:24 #16932
von kitisuru75 Other countries Mercedes-Benz C107 350 SLC
kitisuru75 antwortete auf 1975 350SLC rebirth
Dear Volker,

I have had a new stainless steel exhaust made for the car, so I had a chance to run it more...

It starts quite well but then it runs very much too rich, a lot of black smoke from the exhaust, and you have to give it a lot of throttle to prevent stalling.

I checked the cold start injector, it comes on when cranking,but does not stay on. I tried disconnecting it but the issue remains.

All the sensor values checked previously were within tolerance, the ECU was checked and passed...

Could it be that the injectors are flowing too much petrol? They are the correct yellow ones that I got cleaned, maybe the process damaged them?

What else could cause this problem that I should check?

Best regards,

Jean Pierre

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21 Sep 2021 23:36 #16935
von Dr-DJet Europe Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
Dr-DJet antwortete auf 1975 350SLC rebirth
Hi Jean Pierre,

if those are correct injectors - some L-Jetronic versions are also yellow - you should do MAP sensor leak test as described in chapter 4, verify water temp resistor and close fuel hose to cold start valve.

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
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22 Sep 2021 17:37 #16939
von kitisuru75 Other countries Mercedes-Benz C107 350 SLC
kitisuru75 antwortete auf 1975 350SLC rebirth
Dear Volker,

The cold start injector was stuck open! It's amazing how much petrol that thing dumps! I fitted the one from my spare 450 engine, it's fine.

Now waiting for the brake parts, and we can finally have a road test.

Thank you very much,

Jean Pierre 

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24 Jan 2022 15:12 #17509
von kitisuru75 Other countries Mercedes-Benz C107 350 SLC
kitisuru75 antwortete auf 1975 350SLC rebirth
Dear Volker,

Today I have driven the car for 40 kilometers! I have had so many problems with bad second hand fuel pressure regulators (new ones are not available apparently)
Finally I got round the problem by fitting a Malpassi adjustable fuel pressure regulator. To operate properly, it needs a free flowing return line to the fuel tank, so I located it near the tank and created such a return line. I replaced the regulator under the bonnet by a T junction.
Now I have a very stable 2 bar fuel pressure!
Thank you again for your help with this car! It still has a misfire but I am sure we will soon sort it out.

 

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27 Jan 2022 14:12 #17536
von kitisuru75 Other countries Mercedes-Benz C107 350 SLC
kitisuru75 antwortete auf 1975 350SLC rebirth
Dear Volker,

I am still in trouble... The car had a slight misfire, which has progressively gotten worse.
First I thought that is was ignition related, as it created misfires and felt like the engine was dropping some cylinders. After fitting a new distributor cap, a new condenser, a new coil (the old one was fitted with a horrible antitheft device) and substituting plug wires and rotor with our 6.9 a known runner, I am pretty sure it is NOT ignition related.
Now the only thing in the injection system that could affect some cylinders are the trigger contacts, so I am suspecting them.
You mention a duty cycle tool, is that a dwell meter? Should I measure the dwell with the engine running? Or the voltage a cross the points, still engine running?
Also the car seems to run better when cold, and the miss gets progressively worse the longer it's driven...

Best regards,

Jean-Pierre

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27 Jan 2022 17:21 #17537
von Dr-DJet Europe Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
Dr-DJet antwortete auf 1975 350SLC rebirth
Hi Jean-Pierre,

yes just measure dwell on all 4 running contacts if you want to verify.

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
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27 Jan 2022 17:31 #17538
von Hans-Jürgen Europe Mercedes-Benz C107 350 SLC
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Hello Jean - Pierre,
is the thin cable well attached to the positive pole of the battery? The cable supplies power to the controller.
Hans-Jürgen

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01 Feb 2022 06:27 #17551
von kitisuru75 Other countries Mercedes-Benz C107 350 SLC
kitisuru75 antwortete auf 1975 350SLC rebirth
Dear Volker and Hans-Jurgen,

I am so happy to inform you that the 350SLC is finally reborn!

I thought that the MAP sensor might have failed, so I decided to re test it. It held 0.5 bar vacuum, but I noticed that the vacuum line to it felt loose. I pulled on it and it cam free... It had managed to detach itself from the engine manifold, down below at the back of the engine, where is is well hidden.
Of course this led to massive over fueling and fouling of spark plugs, hence the misfiring.
After re attaching it and fitting new plugs, it drives like a dream!
Now I am trying to get our LHD 450SLC to run, also D Jet. But it's not a nice car, it has had a massive front end shunt, very badly repaired. We will let that one go.

Many thanks for your help, it has been a very interesting 6 month journey!

J-P
 

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01 Feb 2022 10:31 #17552
von Dr-DJet Europe Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
Dr-DJet antwortete auf 1975 350SLC rebirth
Hi Jean-Pierre,

great to hear that she runs again! Do her a favour and replace that hose with a new one that sits better.

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
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