× Kontaktzündungen, kontaktgesteuerte Transistorzündungen, Induktions- und Hallgeber gesteuerte Transistorzündugen

Mercedes Benz 280CE 1974mod M110 Bosch D-Jetronic

  • Drdyse
  • Drdyses Avatar Autor
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member
  • Europe
  • Volvo 164 3.0 E
Mehr
19 Jul 2020 11:39 #14404 von Drdyse Europe Volvo 164 3.0 E
Hi,
I try to fix a Mercedes Benz 280ce 1974mod with M110 engine and Bosch D-Jetronic that not run so good, I try to go true everything to see if I can find the problem.

Now i have come to the ignition system, is here someone that know what ignition timing, dwell, ignition breaker gap and sparkplug gap that it shall be on this engine? It have transistor ignition.

I now use ngk bp6es with 0,8mm gap, ignition timing 10° btdc with vacuum disconected, dwell 32° on idle with 0,3mm gap on ignition breaker, but i dont know if this is correct?

Mvh. Knut Åge

Bitte Anmelden oder Registrieren um der Konversation beizutreten.

  • Volker
  • Volkers Avatar
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • Europe
  • Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
  • Dr-DJet repariert und sammelt alles! :-)
Mehr
19 Jul 2020 14:48 #14405 von Volker Europe Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
Hi Knut Åge,

you will find ignition timing for you engine above in 107 workshop manual as it is the same engine M110. Sorry, I forgot that M110 D-Jetronic is not there.

Okay here is the data for M110 Europe version:
  • Dwell 34-40° in idle, not changing more than 3° in other rpm
  • idle-run with vacuum: TDC +/- 2°
  • 1500/min without vacuum: 14 - 19°
  • 3000/min without vacuum: 32°
  • vaccum retard in idle-run: 8-12°

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
Mercedes-Benz 107 SL/C in der SLpedia Sternzeit 107

Dieses Bild ist für Gäste verborgen.
Bitte anmelden oder registrieren um das Bild zu sehen.

Bitte Anmelden oder Registrieren um der Konversation beizutreten.

  • Drdyse
  • Drdyses Avatar Autor
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member
  • Europe
  • Volvo 164 3.0 E
Mehr
19 Jul 2020 15:21 #14406 von Drdyse Europe Volvo 164 3.0 E
Thank you, you know what can be wrong if dwell angel going down more than 3° on higher rpm? This going down to ca. 25° on higher rpm.

And you know the spark plug gap? Is 0,8mm ok?

Mvh. Knut Åge

Bitte Anmelden oder Registrieren um der Konversation beizutreten.

  • Volker
  • Volkers Avatar
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • Europe
  • Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
  • Dr-DJet repariert und sammelt alles! :-)
Mehr
19 Jul 2020 17:23 #14407 von Volker Europe Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
Hi,

sounds like your bushings are worn and shaft dances a bit or the spring that closes contact is worn out. I always use 0.7 mm gap an my car's spark plugs.

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
Mercedes-Benz 107 SL/C in der SLpedia Sternzeit 107

Dieses Bild ist für Gäste verborgen.
Bitte anmelden oder registrieren um das Bild zu sehen.

Bitte Anmelden oder Registrieren um der Konversation beizutreten.

  • nordfisch
  • nordfischs Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
  • Europe
  • Opel Diplomat 2.8 E
Mehr
19 Jul 2020 17:39 #14408 von nordfisch Europe Opel Diplomat 2.8 E
Hi Knut,
try to adjust the points to the correct value first and clean (polish) the contact plates of the points.
Dirty contacts can lead to changes in the dwell values, too.

Just to make sure the bushings are really worn.

Regards
Norbert

Bitte Anmelden oder Registrieren um der Konversation beizutreten.

  • Drdyse
  • Drdyses Avatar Autor
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member
  • Europe
  • Volvo 164 3.0 E
Mehr
22 Jul 2020 01:31 #14433 von Drdyse Europe Volvo 164 3.0 E
Hi,

Have now checked more and see that the shaft in the distributer can move litle and I dont know if trancistor ignition box is in good condition, so we now order a new 123 ignition distributer and New red Bosch coil and see if things will be better. I have good experience with 123 ignition distributer on Volvo 164E with D-Jetronic.

Thank you both for help :)

Mvh. Knut Åge

Bitte Anmelden oder Registrieren um der Konversation beizutreten.

  • Volker
  • Volkers Avatar
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • Europe
  • Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
  • Dr-DJet repariert und sammelt alles! :-)
Mehr
22 Jul 2020 09:53 #14434 von Volker Europe Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
Hi Knut Åge,

if you have a scope measure how often and how long the 123 ignition trigger contacts close during a rotation of distributor. You might be surprised.

I am not a big fan of 123 ignition. I would recommend to get your old distributor reconditioned.

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
Mercedes-Benz 107 SL/C in der SLpedia Sternzeit 107

Dieses Bild ist für Gäste verborgen.
Bitte anmelden oder registrieren um das Bild zu sehen.

Bitte Anmelden oder Registrieren um der Konversation beizutreten.

  • Drdyse
  • Drdyses Avatar Autor
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member
  • Europe
  • Volvo 164 3.0 E
Mehr
22 Jul 2020 11:29 - 22 Jul 2020 11:31 #14435 von Drdyse Europe Volvo 164 3.0 E
Keine eBay APP ID in der Konfiguration definiert.Hi,

I dont have scoop, can this be something that i can use to scoop trigger contact and injectors?


You have bad experience with 123ignition distributer? what problem it can /will make?

Mvh. Knut Åge

Dieser Beitrag enthält einen Bildanhang.
Bitte anmelden (oder registrieren) um ihn zu sehen.

Letzte Änderung: 22 Jul 2020 11:31 von Drdyse.

Bitte Anmelden oder Registrieren um der Konversation beizutreten.

  • Volker
  • Volkers Avatar
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • Europe
  • Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
  • Dr-DJet repariert und sammelt alles! :-)
Mehr
22 Jul 2020 13:05 #14436 von Volker Europe Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
Hi Knut Åge,

you could but that is not worth it. I have done that once on a Volvo 123 ignition distributor and did not find 150° closure but 2 x 90° closure on both contacts. 123 could not explain to me why they did it like that. Now this works as ECU filters out a contacts double closure. But if there is any noise on one of the lines it would end in desaster as ECU might suddenly recognize double rpm.

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
Mercedes-Benz 107 SL/C in der SLpedia Sternzeit 107

Dieses Bild ist für Gäste verborgen.
Bitte anmelden oder registrieren um das Bild zu sehen.

Bitte Anmelden oder Registrieren um der Konversation beizutreten.

  • Drdyse
  • Drdyses Avatar Autor
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member
  • Europe
  • Volvo 164 3.0 E
Mehr
08 Okt 2020 05:10 - 08 Okt 2020 05:15 #14850 von Drdyse Europe Volvo 164 3.0 E
I have now find the problem with this car, it was å defekt androidcell in map sensor, so it going too lean.
The Bosch nr. Was correct 0 280 100 111, it have not be open or adjusted. With a new used knowing working map sensor, the engine is now running Nice again.
Mvh. Knut Åge
Letzte Änderung: 08 Okt 2020 05:15 von Drdyse.

Bitte Anmelden oder Registrieren um der Konversation beizutreten.

  • Volker
  • Volkers Avatar
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • Europe
  • Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
  • Dr-DJet repariert und sammelt alles! :-)
Mehr
08 Okt 2020 09:07 #14851 von Volker Europe Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
Hi Knut Åge,

really a broken Aneroid cell? In a type 3 MAP sensor? Well I have seen them go off linear but never a broken one so far. Are you sure it was not just detuned?

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
Mercedes-Benz 107 SL/C in der SLpedia Sternzeit 107

Dieses Bild ist für Gäste verborgen.
Bitte anmelden oder registrieren um das Bild zu sehen.

Bitte Anmelden oder Registrieren um der Konversation beizutreten.

  • Drdyse
  • Drdyses Avatar Autor
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member
  • Europe
  • Volvo 164 3.0 E
Mehr
09 Okt 2020 05:00 #14861 von Drdyse Europe Volvo 164 3.0 E
I have not open it yet, so can not be 100% that one of the androidcell is broken.

But I have see this 2times on type 2map sensor and than think the same can happend with type 3map sensor? The car have working fine before with this map sensor, it have not be open or adjusted. Have you other teori on what can detuned the map sensor?

My teori is if it is hole in one of the androidcells than that androidcell will expand and make the map sensor detuned so the a/f mixture will be too lean, what you think about that teori?

Mvh. Knut Åge

Bitte Anmelden oder Registrieren um der Konversation beizutreten.

  • Volker
  • Volkers Avatar
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • Europe
  • Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
  • Dr-DJet repariert und sammelt alles! :-)
Mehr
09 Okt 2020 10:38 #14863 von Volker Europe Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
Hi,

I do not believe in your theory.

A type 3 only has 1 aneroid cell and I personally have not seen any of them with a crack.

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
Mercedes-Benz 107 SL/C in der SLpedia Sternzeit 107

Dieses Bild ist für Gäste verborgen.
Bitte anmelden oder registrieren um das Bild zu sehen.

Bitte Anmelden oder Registrieren um der Konversation beizutreten.

  • Drdyse
  • Drdyses Avatar Autor
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member
  • Europe
  • Volvo 164 3.0 E
Mehr
09 Okt 2020 11:30 #14865 von Drdyse Europe Volvo 164 3.0 E
Type 3 androidcells is not dobble as on type2 androidcells? You have picture of a type 3 androidcells ?

Mvh. Knut Åge

Bitte Anmelden oder Registrieren um der Konversation beizutreten.

  • Volker
  • Volkers Avatar
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • Europe
  • Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
  • Dr-DJet repariert und sammelt alles! :-)
Mehr
09 Okt 2020 13:27 #14866 von Volker Europe Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
Hi,

that is what you find in chapter 4. Type 3 has an aneroid and a differential pressure cell with ventilation.

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
Mercedes-Benz 107 SL/C in der SLpedia Sternzeit 107

Dieses Bild ist für Gäste verborgen.
Bitte anmelden oder registrieren um das Bild zu sehen.

Bitte Anmelden oder Registrieren um der Konversation beizutreten.

  • Drdyse
  • Drdyses Avatar Autor
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member
  • Europe
  • Volvo 164 3.0 E
Mehr
09 Okt 2020 15:55 #14867 von Drdyse Europe Volvo 164 3.0 E
I see now the picture of the type 3androidcells and I see this also have to chamber in the androidcells same as with type 2 androidcells, so it is posible to have hol in one of the chamber in the androidcell, than it will go too lean. You not understand that teori?

Mvh. Knut Åge

Bitte Anmelden oder Registrieren um der Konversation beizutreten.

  • nordfisch
  • nordfischs Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
  • Europe
  • Opel Diplomat 2.8 E
Mehr
09 Okt 2020 17:25 #14868 von nordfisch Europe Opel Diplomat 2.8 E
Hi,
some Opel guys had the problems the Type 3 MPS was clogged with oil and mud and did not function properly.

Some managed to bring it back to function without taking it apart by rinsing it several times using a fluid (maybe just fuel, maybe another kind of solvent).

Regards
Norbert

Bitte Anmelden oder Registrieren um der Konversation beizutreten.

  • Volker
  • Volkers Avatar
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
  • Europe
  • Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
  • Dr-DJet repariert und sammelt alles! :-)
Mehr
09 Okt 2020 18:33 #14869 von Volker Europe Mercedes-Benz R107 450 SL, Mercedes-Benz W111 280 SE Cabrio
Hi Norbert,

but that is a specialty of Opel MAP sensors, no matter whether type 2 or type 3. It happens as the oil moisture trap fails on that engine. Have never seen that on Mercedes-Benz cars. Cleaning and rinsing will by the way not work if you have a flutter valve inside.

Drdyse schrieb: I see now the picture of the type 3androidcells and I see this also have to chamber in the androidcells same as with type 2 androidcells, so it is posible to have hol in one of the chamber in the androidcell, than it will go too lean. You not understand that teori?

Mvh. Knut Åge


No I do not understand your theory. If the single aneroid cell would leak, it would loose vacuum and thus expand on full-load - not letting mixture enrich there. In idle-run it should not matter much.

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
Mercedes-Benz 107 SL/C in der SLpedia Sternzeit 107

Dieses Bild ist für Gäste verborgen.
Bitte anmelden oder registrieren um das Bild zu sehen.

Bitte Anmelden oder Registrieren um der Konversation beizutreten.

  • Drdyse
  • Drdyses Avatar Autor
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member
  • Europe
  • Volvo 164 3.0 E
Mehr
10 Okt 2020 06:25 - 10 Okt 2020 06:28 #14870 von Drdyse Europe Volvo 164 3.0 E
Hi,

If the single androidcell would leak, it will have same pressure on inside as on outside of the leaking androidcell and it will expand, same as it will do at low load/ high vacuum/ low inductance, you agree?

+ with only one working androidcell it will have half of change in inductance from 0 Inhg to 25 Inhg vs. with 2 working androidcells.

so with one defekt androidcell, it will go too lean on every load, it will also do that the idle mixture will be too lean, you will not have posiblety to rich the idle mixture to the correct CO value and the inlet vacuum will be lower too with this very lean mixture.

You now understand the teory? or you have a better answer on what have detuned a map sensor that is not open or adjusted?

mvh. Knut Åge
Letzte Änderung: 10 Okt 2020 06:28 von Drdyse.

Bitte Anmelden oder Registrieren um der Konversation beizutreten.

  • Drdyse
  • Drdyses Avatar Autor
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member
  • Europe
  • Volvo 164 3.0 E
Mehr
10 Okt 2020 06:52 #14871 von Drdyse Europe Volvo 164 3.0 E
Hi nordfisch,

I will see when I open up the defect MPS if it is clogged with oil and mud, but I have not see before that it have be so much oil and mud in the MPS that it have effect on function on the MPS, but I have most experianse with type 2 MPS to Volvos and there I only have see small amont of oil and mud inside the MPS.

When I come home next time from work, I will open it and check the androidcell from the defekt/detunded 0 280 100 111 and compere to a knowing working type 3 androidcell I have, I can check det high on both in atmosferic pressure and I can put it on a emty clean jam jars and pump up vacuum on the jam jars and see how much it expand, to see if it is differance as I expecting, than it will confirm or break my theory... time will show :) and I will show the result here :)

mvh. Knut Åge

Bitte Anmelden oder Registrieren um der Konversation beizutreten.

Ladezeit der Seite: 0.082 Sekunden
Powered by Kunena Forum