Die Bosch D-Jetronic war 1967 die erste Großserien elektronische Einspritzung der Welt. - Bosch's D-Jetronic was the first mass-production electronic fuel injection.
Citroen SM injector points
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9 Jahre 7 Monate her - 9 Jahre 7 Monate her #2657
von Dr-DJet
Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
Alles für den Mercedes-Benz R/C 107 und W116 in der SLpedia Sternzeit 107
Workshops D-Jetronic 28.6.(F),20.9.(ER), K-Jetronic 23.8.(F)
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Dr-DJet antwortete auf Citroen SM injector points
And ye Rhys, it is correct: Without MAP sensor no running engine, even in idle-run.
Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
Alles für den Mercedes-Benz R/C 107 und W116 in der SLpedia Sternzeit 107
Workshops D-Jetronic 28.6.(F),20.9.(ER), K-Jetronic 23.8.(F)
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Letzte Änderung: 9 Jahre 7 Monate her von Dr-DJet.
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9 Jahre 7 Monate her #2659
von rhysaccess
rhysaccess antwortete auf Citroen SM injector points
Howdy all,
The results of the ECU connector assessment follow.
The injector results are interesting and I got slightly different results on the three separate occasions I measured Pins 3 - 6.
Cheers,
Rhys
The results of the ECU connector assessment follow.
The injector results are interesting and I got slightly different results on the three separate occasions I measured Pins 3 - 6.
Dieser Anhang ist für Gäste verborgen.
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Bitte anmelden oder registrieren um den Anhang zu sehen.
Cheers,
Rhys
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9 Jahre 7 Monate her - 9 Jahre 7 Monate her #2660
von Dr-DJet
Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
Alles für den Mercedes-Benz R/C 107 und W116 in der SLpedia Sternzeit 107
Workshops D-Jetronic 28.6.(F),20.9.(ER), K-Jetronic 23.8.(F)
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Dr-DJet antwortete auf Citroen SM injector points
Hallo Norbert, and Rhys,
1-3/16 to 2 inHg means 40 to 65 mbar below sea level pressure (meaning 1023 minus this pressure). That is when the switch closes.
2 to 3-3/16 inHg means 65 to 105 mbar below sea level pressure (meaning 1023 minus this pressure) That is when the switch reopens with increasing vacuum in intake manifold.
Bosch names the closing pressure for Citroen as 60 mbar. For VW it is 50 mBar. Such an absolute pressure switch (sorry if I use that technical term, it was once my daily job and it is not a differential pressure sensor) consists of an aneroid cell and a switch. This aneroid cell is compressed by surround intake manifold pressure. The higher the pressure, the more the compression. I would guess that it is the same aneroid cell as in MAP sensors. I do not know for sure as I only have one new VW absolute pressure sensor and I do not want to destroy it.
Now you also understand the problem with this switch and why it is not understandable that Citroen continued to use it in all models. If you live in other altitude than sea level, your environmental pressure will decrease in higher altitudes. If barometric pressure is below 960 mBar, this switch will never close. That already happens in 450 m altitude. And even before the engine will hardly reach that value, even when running with throttle fully open.
1-3/16 to 2 inHg means 40 to 65 mbar below sea level pressure (meaning 1023 minus this pressure). That is when the switch closes.
2 to 3-3/16 inHg means 65 to 105 mbar below sea level pressure (meaning 1023 minus this pressure) That is when the switch reopens with increasing vacuum in intake manifold.
Bosch names the closing pressure for Citroen as 60 mbar. For VW it is 50 mBar. Such an absolute pressure switch (sorry if I use that technical term, it was once my daily job and it is not a differential pressure sensor) consists of an aneroid cell and a switch. This aneroid cell is compressed by surround intake manifold pressure. The higher the pressure, the more the compression. I would guess that it is the same aneroid cell as in MAP sensors. I do not know for sure as I only have one new VW absolute pressure sensor and I do not want to destroy it.
Now you also understand the problem with this switch and why it is not understandable that Citroen continued to use it in all models. If you live in other altitude than sea level, your environmental pressure will decrease in higher altitudes. If barometric pressure is below 960 mBar, this switch will never close. That already happens in 450 m altitude. And even before the engine will hardly reach that value, even when running with throttle fully open.
Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
Alles für den Mercedes-Benz R/C 107 und W116 in der SLpedia Sternzeit 107
Workshops D-Jetronic 28.6.(F),20.9.(ER), K-Jetronic 23.8.(F)
Dieses Bild ist für Gäste verborgen.
Bitte anmelden oder registrieren um das Bild zu sehen.
Letzte Änderung: 9 Jahre 7 Monate her von Dr-DJet.
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9 Jahre 7 Monate her #2663
von Dr-DJet
Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
Alles für den Mercedes-Benz R/C 107 und W116 in der SLpedia Sternzeit 107
Workshops D-Jetronic 28.6.(F),20.9.(ER), K-Jetronic 23.8.(F)
Dieses Bild ist für Gäste verborgen.
Dr-DJet antwortete auf Citroen SM injector points
Hi Rhys,
everything looks fine, only the values for injector resistance is strange. you should now measure
everything looks fine, only the values for injector resistance is strange. you should now measure
- Every wire resistance from pin 3, 4, 5, 6 to injectors
- Every wire resistance from injectors to ground
- Resistance of each injector directly on injector
- Resistance of your measuring cables
Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
Alles für den Mercedes-Benz R/C 107 und W116 in der SLpedia Sternzeit 107
Workshops D-Jetronic 28.6.(F),20.9.(ER), K-Jetronic 23.8.(F)
Dieses Bild ist für Gäste verborgen.
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Folgende Benutzer bedankten sich: thomasgu
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9 Jahre 7 Monate her #2664
von Dr-DJet
Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
Alles für den Mercedes-Benz R/C 107 und W116 in der SLpedia Sternzeit 107
Workshops D-Jetronic 28.6.(F),20.9.(ER), K-Jetronic 23.8.(F)
Dieses Bild ist für Gäste verborgen.
Dr-DJet antwortete auf Citroen SM injector points
BTW,
a differential pressure switch would have been the solution, but it is a much more expensive technology. With a dp switch one could have set a condition like "If manifold pressure is 60 hPa below environmental pressure of this car, then activate switch." That would have accomodated for other altitudes than sea level. It is too expensive to do. I just spent more than 200€ on a dp sensor for adjusting and testing MAP sensors. I first set enviromental pressure to a fixed value and then I set differential pressure between this set enironmental pressure and inside pressure.
If I got you confused now, here is a Wikipedia article on pressure sensors .
a differential pressure switch would have been the solution, but it is a much more expensive technology. With a dp switch one could have set a condition like "If manifold pressure is 60 hPa below environmental pressure of this car, then activate switch." That would have accomodated for other altitudes than sea level. It is too expensive to do. I just spent more than 200€ on a dp sensor for adjusting and testing MAP sensors. I first set enviromental pressure to a fixed value and then I set differential pressure between this set enironmental pressure and inside pressure.
If I got you confused now, here is a Wikipedia article on pressure sensors .
Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
Alles für den Mercedes-Benz R/C 107 und W116 in der SLpedia Sternzeit 107
Workshops D-Jetronic 28.6.(F),20.9.(ER), K-Jetronic 23.8.(F)
Dieses Bild ist für Gäste verborgen.
Bitte anmelden oder registrieren um das Bild zu sehen.
Folgende Benutzer bedankten sich: thomasgu
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9 Jahre 7 Monate her #2676
von nordfisch
nordfisch antwortete auf Citroen SM injector points
Hi Rhys,
I now corrected the English version of the checklist following your annotations..
Would you please 'check the checklist'?
jetronic.org/de/forum2/jetronic/19-messp...nts-by-car-model#170
This is very worthy for us - now I can correct some car-specific checklists, that must contain the same error concerning the full-load-sensor.
We had the same error conncerning the ground lead of the TPS once before. Maybe some more checklists are faultily.
Concerning your car: You told us new injectors were installed. Are these the correct genuine Bosch types or Compare types?
Regards
Norbert
I now corrected the English version of the checklist following your annotations..
Would you please 'check the checklist'?
jetronic.org/de/forum2/jetronic/19-messp...nts-by-car-model#170
This is very worthy for us - now I can correct some car-specific checklists, that must contain the same error concerning the full-load-sensor.
We had the same error conncerning the ground lead of the TPS once before. Maybe some more checklists are faultily.
Concerning your car: You told us new injectors were installed. Are these the correct genuine Bosch types or Compare types?
Regards
Norbert
Folgende Benutzer bedankten sich: thomasgu
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