Cold Start Injector Flowrate?

Forum;

When I searched under CSI, I see numbers of 2.0-2.6cc (per minute?) as a delivery rate for the cylinder injectors, but I am interested in a comparative flowrate for the CSI.

I expect since the CSI enrichens for all cylinders, the pintle size and therefore flowrate are a lot higher. I realize CSI does not get pulsed, but (for Volvo 1800E) is energized during cranking only.

TIA for answers, und Weihnachtsgruesse aus Connecticut!

Hi Ron,

I am not sure whether I understand your question. Do you want to know flow rates for BMW 3.0 CSI injectors? Or do we talk of CIS ?

By CSI, I mean Cold Start Injector as fitted on Volvo...I thought this would be clear from Subject line.

Cheers

Hi Ron,

ah CSI, is it CSI Miami or New York ? Cold Start Iinjector is never pulsed like injectors. Depending on engine temperature it normally operates once while cranking cold engine (exception early P1800E). Normally CSI is operated by a thermo time switch. But on early Volvo we have a special ECU (009 and 017) that operates this CSI. This feature is called electronic thermo time switch. If you happen to replace such an ECU on an early Volvo P1800 E with a later ECU (034) your CSI will never be operated.

YLater P1800E have a conventional thermo time switch. The problem with electronic thermo time switch as part of ECU is that it will operate every time you start your car - if engine is cold enough. You can drown your engine in fuel if it does not start. A concentional thermo time switch is heated and will not operate in each starting process, only once.

Find more in Chapter 3.9 under Feature Coldst . T means that thermoe time switch is part of ECU.

All info you have given is good, correct, and I am also aware of it!...what I was asking was about FLOWRATE of CSI vs normal cylinder (pulsed) Injectors. In other words: With normal fuelrail pressure supply, what it the delivery rate for each? This is the info I am really interested in.

Thanks and Gruesse!

Hi,

that would be around 100 cm³/min . So it is much less than a fuel injector operated continuously. But injectors are operated in ms range only. Unfortunately Bosch cold start valve property list misses the 0 280 170 010.

Thanks for info...compared to 20-26cc/min, that would mean the CSI flows 5 times the rate of the cylinder Injectors...this supports my theory that the (much smaller) cylinder injectors may be frozen from fuel gum (a real problem here in the US with fuel deteriorating from the alcohol they add!), but the CSI is not, since it is so much bigger.

Symptoms for an 1800E no-start after 6months being parked, are that it only runs during cranking, and stops after cranking...this suggest to me that FuPu is charging fuel rail and CSI is injecting, and everything including Ign are OK, but only CSI is supplying fuel. I suggested owner also check for injector pulses with Ign ON and while opening Throttle.

Link to FB thread: www.facebook.com/100009665841218/videos/1394293547569493/

Gruesse

Hi,

I disagree. As I wrote before, a normal injector has a mich higher flow rate. Statically 265 to 380 cm³/min . But they are not operated statically.

What happened to my posting?

Repeating: I must have understood...rephrasing the question...all test conditions (fuel rail pressure, time of energization, etc.) being equal, what is the comparative flowrate of CSi vs cylinder injector?

Gruesse

Ron the injector at your cylinder will flow 265 - 380 ccm/Minute.
Your CSI will flow 20 - 26 ccm/Minute.
Rudiger

Hi Rudiger,

objection dear sir. As I wrote above CSIs of D-Jetronic have a flow of roughly 100 ccm/minute. I do not know it exactly for this 0 280 170 010 . It was also used in BMW and later replaced by 0 280 170 024 that shows a flow rate of 85 ccm/min.

Wherever you have this 20 - 26 ccm/minute from: It is not the static flow rate of an injector nor of this CSI.

Hi,

I do not know what Ron means by

RonKwas" wrote: What happened to my posting?

I have already written above that

Dr-DJet wrote: a normal injector has a mich higher flow rate. Statically 265 to 380 cm³/min . But they are not operated statically.

Again: I diasgree with Ron*'s theory. But I cannot read Facebook entries. I think it is better if you ask the owner of the car to log in here and ask his questions.

Volker wrote: Hi Rudiger,

objection dear sir. As I wrote above CSIs of D-Jetronic have a flow of roughly 100 ccm/minute. I do not know it exactly for this 0 280 170 010 . It was also used in BMW and later replaced by 0 280 170 024 that shows a flow rate of 85 ccm/min.

Wherever you have this 20 - 26 ccm/minute from: It is not the static flow rate of an injector nor of this CSI.

Hi Volker, This was Ron's own statement. Post 21 Dez 2020 15:21
Thanks for info...compared to 20-26cc/min, that would mean the CSI flows 5 times the rate of the cylinder Injectors.
Rudiger

Hallo Volker,
findest du nicht, dass sich Ron da zu viel heraus nimmt? Was soll "What happened to my posting?" Ich schätze dieses Forum als eines in dem man freundlich um Unterstützung/Hilfe anfragt. Und ebenso freundlich Antwort erhält.
Gruß
Michi

Hi Michi,

I already asked Ron above what he wants to tell by that statement and I expect an answer from him.

RonKwas wrote: What happened to my posting?

I am also tired of repeating again and again that fuel injectors have higher flow rate than cold start valve.

Forum;

Thanks you all for trying to help with information! I certainly didn't mean to start any disagreements.

Maybe I was oversimplifying and comparing apples with oranges when I tried to compare the flowrates of a continuous flowing CSI and the pulsed cylinder injector...my thought was that IF the CSI orifice and pintle are physically larger than the cylinder injectors, that might explain why the CSI was working fine after 6 months of inactivity, and why cyl inj were not, possibly due to binding due to fuel gum.

The 2.0-2.6ccm is from a search on this site for "Cold Start Injector" a result from a thread: jetronic.org/en/forum/jetronic/1370-350s...start-problems#13330 the 20-26ccm is my copying error.

As far as "What happened to my posting"...I had put a posting trying to clarify my question, and the next day I didn't see it on this thread...maybe it was my error, and I hadn't actually posted...I just thought I did...

Again, thanks all for trying to help with info...I will be sure to be more specific in future questions.

Cheers from Connecticut and Merry Christmas!

Ron Kwas wrote: ...

The 2.0-2.6ccm is from a search on this site for "Cold Start Injector" a result from a thread: jetronic.org/en/forum/jetronic/1370-350s...start-problems#13330 the 20-26ccm is my copying error.

As far as "What happened to my posting"...I had put a posting trying to clarify my question, and the next day I didn't see it on this thread...maybe it was my error, and I hadn't actually posted...I just thought I did...
...

Oh, YES...
the injectors were pulsed in the situation described in the linked posting...

...and postings can get lost if it takes a too long time formulating them out. I had this experience once again just yesterday when I wrote my X-mas and New-Year-wishes. Clever enough I copied them before publishing the posting ... I got a time-out-error and would have lost the whole posting if I hadn't copied it before.

I wish you a Merry Christmas, too
Norbert