× Willkommen auf der Automobilseite des Jetronic.org Forums ! - Welcome to the Automotive part of the Jetronic.org forum !

Erzählt uns und anderen, wer Ihr seid und warum Ihr Euch auf diesem Forum registriert habt.
Ich heiße alle Auto-Begeisterten hier herzlich willkommen und hoffe, Euch häufig hier zu sehen.

Tell us and our members who you are, what you like and why you became a member of this site.
We welcome all new members and hope to see you around a lot!

vorstellung 450sl from California 1979 with TSZ-4

  • letank
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
More
14 Nov 2019 01:22 - 14 Nov 2019 01:24 #12694
Hello,
New member here, from California with some ignition issues. Thank you for this site, I could download the correct testing procedure, the Mercedes CD manual that I have did not have the correct testing procedure for the R107 / 450sl 1979 with 46Kkm/ with he breakerless distributor.
In my case once the misfiring started, I pulled over and let the engine cool... it was a hot day, not even 20C, but the coil was very hot. I managed to drive home stopping every 10min. I installed one of the Jeep coil and it ran fine, albeit the specs are different. The last test drive was good but after 20min the misfiring and loss of power was very noticeable. Let the coil cool for 10 min while checking resistance numbers and realized that my voltmeter is not good enough to measure low resistance, so I will use a differential method. The engine restarted and had plenty of power to go up our many hills in San Francisco. Now I am back to testing the various output because I have the right instructions. Now I will be able to so some tests when the ignition starts to fail after 5 to 20 min.

I was lucky to find 2 450 at the local junkyard and retrieve 2 ignition box

I hope that google translate did not make too many awful mistakes

Cheers
Michel

Hallo,
Neues mitglied hier, aus den USA. Vielen dank für diese seite, ich konnte das korrekte testverfahren herunterladen, das Mercedes-CD-Handbuch, das ich hatte, nicht das korrekte Testverfahren hatte, weil unser R107 / 450sl 1979 mit 46Kkm / den breakerless Verteiler hat.

In meinem fall, als der Aussetzer losging, fuhr ich los und ließ den motor abkühlen ... es war nicht heiß, die außentemperatur 20 ° C, aber die spule war sehr heiß. Ich schaffte es alle 10 minuten nach hause zu fahren und anzuhalten. Ich habe eine der Jeep-spulen installiert und sie lief einwandfrei, obwohl die technischen Daten unterschiedlich sind. Die letzte Probefahrt war gut, aber nach 20 Minuten waren fehlzündungen und stromausfall sehr auffällig. Diesmal hörte ich nicht auf und schaffte es kaum nach hause. Lassen sie die spule 10 Minuten lang abkühlen, während sie die widerstandszahlen überprüfen, und stellen sie fest. Mein Voltmeter ist nicht gut genug, um einen niedrigen Widerstand zu messen. Daher verwende ich eine Differentialmethode. Der motor sprang an und hatte genug kraft, um die vielen hügel in San Francisco hinaufzufahren. Jetzt bin ich zurück, um die verschiedenen ausgaben zu testen, da ich die richtigen anweisungen habe.
Jetzt kann ich so einige tests machen, wenn die zündung nach 5 bis 20 min ausfällt

Ich hatte das Glück, 2x 450sl auf dem örtlichen Schrottplatz zu finden und 2 Zündboxen zu holen

Ich hoffe, das google translate nicht zu viele schreckliche Fehler gemacht hat

Grüße

Michel
Last edit: 14 Nov 2019 01:24 by letank.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 Nov 2019 09:27 #12695
Hi Michel,

there is absolutely no need to translate to German. We understand and communicate in English very well.

Welcome to jetronic.org and if you wish you can also have another look into my 107 SL website sternzeit-107.de . There we have much more German writing. But I'd love to see some more English writing there as well.

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
Workshops Heizung/Klima 26.8. Frankfurt , D-Jetronic 16.9. Frankfurt

This image is hidden for guests.
Please log in or register to see it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
15 Nov 2019 13:08 #12697
Replied by rema350SL-H on topic vorstellung 450sl from California 1979 with TSZ-4
Hi,

am I right that the 1979 450SL is no D-Jetronic? Is, at least, the ignition system similar?

Best regards,
Recardo

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
15 Nov 2019 13:41 #12698
Hi Recardo,

absolutely NOT!

450 SL KA-Jetronic has a breakerless igntion system TSZ-4 with an inductive sensor. 450 SL D-Jetronic always has a breaker even that is already transistorized named TSZ-k (k stands for Kontakt). They are totally different. The big problem is that the late unfied TSZ-k ignition module and the early TSZ-4 igntion module are compatible in connectors. Mercedes-Benz uses that in W114/W116 from the beginning (exception 250 CE) and in 107 as of late 74.

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
Workshops Heizung/Klima 26.8. Frankfurt , D-Jetronic 16.9. Frankfurt

This image is hidden for guests.
Please log in or register to see it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
15 Nov 2019 15:11 #12699
Replied by rema350SL-H on topic vorstellung 450sl from California 1979 with TSZ-4
Dear Volker,

thanks for your explanation. I am always impressed about this incredible knowledge. Good to have you. :YES:

Best regards,
Recardo

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • letank
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
More
30 May 2020 23:38 #14049
Hi, it has been a long time to update my post, I hope that everyone is fine.
I found 2 extra switchgear at the local junkyard and the engine started in the driveway, for a few minutes run. One of these switchgear is installed, and I have another one ready if the engine stops running to do test and eventually do a quick road side swap.

Also in case the switchgears from the junkyard have the same issues I retrofitted a MSD CDI box to connected to the electrical system. I disconnected the coil wire and the switchgears plugs, and made a crude connection to the Green wire from the distributor which is a non standard "phono jack" or "radio antenna jack" This will be good for testing but in the future I will make a weatherpack connector if needed.

As soon as we are allowed to venture outdoor, we will take the little car for a drive

Thank you for the wealth of information available on the site, I have made a list of what to look at for the next roadside repair...

Stay safe, well and resilient

Michel

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • letank
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
More
11 Oct 2021 07:46 #17005
A bit of an update... I found out that the distributor cap had a damaged post, more arcing than the other. It was replaced but no improvements... Then I finally found the non resistor spark plugs and used the NGK BP5ES, properly gaped at 0.7mm -the packaged plugs are not gaped for our specs- I did a quick 7 km drive in town, and there was a lot more power on the steep uphill streets that we have here, and no misfire.
I will do a longer test drive during the week as it will be easier to get a tow truck if needed.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • letank
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
More
02 Apr 2022 00:34 #17728
Another update... after another failed test drive, I finally bought the right fuel pressure test gauge, the first one did not have any of the right fittings, thank you amaz@n!

So it seems a bit lean when the engine is running, pressure is 3.5 bar or 50psi, recommendation are in the 2.9 to 3.2 bar. Yes the engine misses upon initial acceleration....

Best,
Michel

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Apr 2022 01:35 #17729
Hi Michel,

well control pressure depends on
  • model year: 79 or 80
  • WUR number: For 79 should be a 0 438 140 056
  • Vacuum connected or not
  • If you have WUR 056 and vacuum is connected then control pressure of 3.4 - 3.8 bar is okay

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
Workshops Heizung/Klima 26.8. Frankfurt , D-Jetronic 16.9. Frankfurt

This image is hidden for guests.
Please log in or register to see it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • letank
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
More
02 Apr 2022 04:29 - 02 Apr 2022 04:35 #17730
Hi Volker,
thank you, yes, I had to go back to the WUR number, it ends in 061 so it is withing specs, with vacuum connected.
Must be something else...

Otherwise at full throttle it runs very well! Idles as should be in the 600 to 650 rpm
Best,
Michel
Last edit: 02 Apr 2022 04:35 by letank.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Apr 2022 11:08 #17731
Hi Michel,

061 seems to be the wrong one for your car.

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
Workshops Heizung/Klima 26.8. Frankfurt , D-Jetronic 16.9. Frankfurt

This image is hidden for guests.
Please log in or register to see it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • letank
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
More
03 Apr 2022 04:06 #17732
thank you, this is a federal model initially from Chicago. I have a very strong belief that due to the low mileage nobody has ever done anything to it... but us... 12Kmiles when bought in the early 90's... 29Kmiles now with trouble free years... until 2018...

I started to check for vacuum leaks... nothing obvious, but a low manifold vacuum on the blue line to the EGR control... it was 10inch of mercury, I am starting to replace rubber connectors... now at 12inch of mercury... I guess I need to convert to Euro units...

Drove around the house to check power due to our steep hills... seems fine today.
Best,
Michel

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Apr 2022 13:16 #17738
Hi,

well the 061 seems to be a WUR for MB 380 SE/SL USA version egnine. So not for 450 SL.

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
Workshops Heizung/Klima 26.8. Frankfurt , D-Jetronic 16.9. Frankfurt

This image is hidden for guests.
Please log in or register to see it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • letank
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
More
03 Apr 2022 19:14 #17751
Hi Volker,
Thank you for this precision, it makes sense as the 450 last month of sale for the US was March 1980, before the release of the 380. It is common at least in the US to have an older model with newer model parts. It is a challenge for these overlapping years when trying to find what should fit.
From the documents in the trunk you or one of this board members can probably have more insight.
Best,
Michel
 

This message has an attachment image.
Please log in or register to see it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Apr 2022 20:48 - 03 Apr 2022 20:50 #17752
Hi Michel,

as I collect datacards of all R/C 107 and W116 I was happy to see this stripe. There are just 2 things that I would need to have it complete
  • Engine no. 118985120xxxxx
  • Gearbox no. 722004 02 xxxxxx
  • and maybe date of production / first registration
BTW you have a model year 79 .

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
Workshops Heizung/Klima 26.8. Frankfurt , D-Jetronic 16.9. Frankfurt

This image is hidden for guests.
Please log in or register to see it.

Last edit: 03 Apr 2022 20:50 by Dr-DJet.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • letank
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
More
04 Apr 2022 06:35 #17753
here we go for your collection

Engine 117985 12 033539
trans 722004 02 108258

 

Best

This message has an attachment image.
Please log in or register to see it.

The following user(s) said Thank You: Dr-DJet

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • letank
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
More
21 Apr 2022 19:14 #17879
Progress made: I secured the pressure test gauge to prevent the hoses from touching hot engine surfaces... and did the usual drive until the engine started to act up, usually 3 to 5 miles. Pop the hood installed the gauge on the fender, secured it with a large magnet and a padding from an old inner tube.
As soon as the engine reaches 2000 to 2200 rpm, the control pressure drops from 3.5 bar to 3.2, engine misses, pressure drops further to 3 bar... let go of the throttle, pressure comes back to 3.5 with full power as long as the rpm is below a certain rpm.

Time to check the fuel pump when it is warm. I did an amp test last year, but it was on a cold engine.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
21 Apr 2022 22:02 #17880
Hi Michel,

you should also check incoming filter for fuel distributor and whether it delivers enough fuel to WUR and fuel flow rate returned to tank.

Viele Schraubergrüße - best regards, Dr-DJet Volker
Workshops Heizung/Klima 26.8. Frankfurt , D-Jetronic 16.9. Frankfurt

This image is hidden for guests.
Please log in or register to see it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • letank
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
More
15 Aug 2022 23:21 #18363
Hi Volker,
Success, I bypassed the fuel pump relay, drove 16 km the first day on city streets. I then secured the hood to prevent it from flying open, the only way to see the fuel pressure is to have the gauge being held with a large magnet on the fender and a piece of inner tube between the magnet and the fender paint!

Then I went for 45 km without hesitation even on our steep uphill freeways... going 110km (speed limit almost observed), fuel pressure steady at 50psi...

Now I have to find the culprit, on either the fuel pump relay or the ignition relay circuit -the one under the fuel pump relay- that I removed after the failed test in April.

Thank you for your suggestions, will post progress as it is always good to convey our findings, failure or success.

Best,

Michel

P.S: now I have to figure out why the E32 has high Nox! No code founds, I need to get a copy of INPA 3.0

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • letank
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
More
25 Sep 2022 03:01 #18487
It never stops, I repeated the fun ride... at some point... hesitation in a turn... but there is still plenty of power with a bit a rich exhaust ... then engine quits and smell of gas.... that was an easy one, fuel hose from fuel filter to accumulator cracked, at least we did not have to call the fire department...
Cheers
Michel

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.069 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum