Lancia 2000 problems

Hi Bruno,

the 10 + 10 accerator contacts create 0 Volt signals on pin 9 and pin 20, but always in sequence on pin 9, then 20, then 9 ... and that is 10 times on both. ECU sees these and creates a broadening signal on injector drivers and influences pulse width modulator.

If these 10 + 10 signals do not come, acceleration of engine is limited. But it will accelerate and not drop rpm as drastically as you describe. that is why I said that such a drop is caused by a basically wrong mixture. However my test described above by removing throttle switch will let you eliminate it as reason.

So now you speak of a....basically wrong mixture......
If so....what is the...medicine?
Mille grazie

Hi Bruno,

let us do one step after the other with my checklist . Let us start with basics. Did you do all the tests in sectors

1. Engine
2. Components
3. Ignition (values from your workshop manual)
4. Fuel supply (2.0 to 2.1 Bar on running engine)
5. Power supply
6. Vacuum (including pulling -0.5 bar on MAP sensor and wwatching how fast it drops)

If you have done them, it is time to use a multimeter and measure all sensors. Remove ECU connector and measure directly on it with terminal numbers from Appendix B check section

Connector ECU, ignition OFF
Throttle switch

Then you remove terminal 15 from ignition coil (to protect overheating it) and switch ON ignition

Trigger contacts / points
Injectors: Crank engine without ignition

If all that is within specs and your problem still persists, do the last two tests

Remove throttle switch connector and verify whether that makes a change in rpm drop while accelerating
Connect a fuel pressure gauge with a long fuel hose to your fuel supply line over injectors and fix its display outside of your windshield window so that you can watch it while driving. Does fuel pressure drop when rpm drops suddenly?

If all that shows no fault, I can offer to verify your MAP sensor and ECU, but that should be the last resort.

I did write you a long and detailed...update but while ending it maybe I made some error and it disappeared!
I try to summarize for your help:
- replaced both the trigger points and throttle switch: they were still good, no improvement at all and now the car has shocks, noises as if a cylinder does not receive fuel or spark....!
The Bosch tecnician said that the air/fuel mixture is lean and that there is no variation at any position of the CO knob!
How can I adjust the mixture? (to have it less lean)
He said that it could be the mps (again! I replaced it!)
I think that it could be an injector or something wrong with the ECU...what do you think?
I would like to send you my original mps to inspect/check and possibly fix....how long will it take?
I fear that the replacementwork has been made by a simple worker and not an expert and that they did not even read the Lancia/Bosch manual I left to them to read....!
I will return and ask to possibly tell me the truth!
I am very disappointed...what can I do?
I think that you were right when you wrote: I said that such a drop is caused by a basically wrong mixture
I have already replaced the advance unit, the trigger points, the mps, the ts...what else should I do?
Many thanks in advance.
Bruno

Hi Bruno,

yes you seem to suffer a lot and it is hard to help from remote when neither you nor your workshop is familiar with D-Jetronic. It would be great if you could let us know which points of the checklist you have already checked. Otherwise I fear that we turn round in circles.

I can of course answer your questions but without a systematic diagnosis on your side, it will be very difficult.

1. The Bosch tecnician said that the air/fuel mixture is lean and that there is no variation at any position of the CO knob.
   If the Bosch technician had a glue of D-Jetronic, he would have checked where idle-run switch is properly adjusted and is close in idle. See chapter 12 Maintenance how to do that.!
2. How can I adjust the mixture? (to have it less lean)
   Well other than in idle-run cia knob you cannot change mixture. That is what D-Jetronic automatically adjusts for you.
3. He said that it could be the mps (again! I replaced it!)
   So you have a NEW MAP sensor? Or is it a used one? If you pull a vacuum of 0,5 Bar, how quickly does it drop to 0,45 Bar?
4. I think that it could be an injector or something wrong with the ECU...what do you think?
   That is impossible to say without a bit of diagnosis.
5. I would like to send you my original mps to inspect/check and possibly fix....how long will it take? If you have a NEW MAP sensor, that sounds a bit strange to me. Why would you want me to check your old one? And yes I could do that, typically takes a week. We had a similiar case with Michael and his Lancia here in last year. His workshop got his MAP sensor repaired by Bosch. But in the end he brought his ECU to me and I could measure it was broken. But his workshop was able to do all other diagnosis well so that the ECU was the only thing left to test in the end.
6. I fear that the replacementwork has been made by a simple worker and not an expert and that they did not even read the Lancia/Bosch manual I left to them to read....
   There is a very good Bosch workshop manual (Kundendienstanleitung) on partbob.de. Unfortunately that is only available in German. But let us be honest: A technician without an idea of D-Jetronic will not start to read the manual. A comment like idle-run CO knob does not work shows that they have no idea.!
7. I will return and ask to possibly tell me the truth!
8. I am very disappointed...what can I do?
   in Germany, Austria and Switzerland they have Bosch Classic Car Service Centers. I propose you ask Bosch Automotive Tradition whether they know an experienced Bosch Classic Car Service in Milano.

Hi Bruno,

on your request I have taken references for Lancia MAP sensor references again. But since days I get no reply from you. If you need help with your MAP sensor, please reply. Have you asked Bosch Automotive Tradition for a good workshop in Italy? I fear that your and your current workshop's experience will not be enough to solve the problem.